Author Topic: Music  (Read 1206 times)

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Re: Music
« Reply #315 on: March 22, 2020, 07:56:34 pm »
Here, since I mentioned Zelenka:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDyTabnimp0

This is wild stuff, man.  Try to find the opening chorus to Sub olea pacis et palmis virtutis, too.

Metron

  • ||*~the propinquity of moving electrons~*||
Re: Music
« Reply #316 on: March 22, 2020, 08:43:45 pm »
Nice mullet, dude.

Let's take a look under the lid and see who's in there...the cricketer prime minister ain't all he pretends to be:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imran_Khan

Imran Ahmed Khan Niazi HI PP (Urdu: عمران احمد خان نیازی‎; born 5 October 1952)[9] is the 22nd and current Prime Minister of Pakistan and the chairman of the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI). Before entering politics, Khan was an international cricketer and captain of the Pakistan national cricket team, which he led to victory in the 1992 Cricket World Cup.

Basing his wider paradigm on the poet-philosopher Muhammad Iqbal and the Iranian writer-sociologist Ali Shariati he came across in his youth, Khan is generally described as a nationalist and a populist. Khan's proclaimed political platform and declarations include: Islamic values, to which he rededicated himself in the 1990s; liberal economics, with the promise of deregulating the economy and creating a welfare state; decreased bureaucracy and the implementation of anti-corruption laws, to create and ensure a clean government; the establishment of an independent judiciary; overhaul of the country's police system; and an anti-militant vision for a democratic Pakistan.

Khan supported General Pervez Musharraf's military coup in 1999, believing Musharraf would "end corruption, clear out the political mafias". According to Khan, he was Musharraf's choice for prime minister in 2002 but turned down the offer.

Net worth
In 2012, Khan had net worth of ₨22.9 million (US$160,000) which decreased to ₨14 million (US$99,000) in the election year 2013 and then gradually increased to ₨33.3 million (US$240,000) in 2014. In 2015 Khan's assets were valued ₨1.33 billion (US$9.4 million). As of 2017, his net worth is ₨1.4 billion (US$9.9 million).[211]

Assets
Khan owns a 300 kanal mansion in Bani Gala, Islamabad worth ₨750 million (US$5.3 million). He has a house in Zaman Park, Lahore worth ₨29 million (US$210,000). Khan has also been an investor, investing more than ₨40 million (US$280,000) in various businesses. He is also owner of agriculture land of 39 kanals at Talhar, Islamabad, and 530 kanals at Khanewal. Further, he also has a share in 363 kanals of agricultural land which he inherited.

Other assets include furniture of ₨0.6 million (US$4,200) and livestock of ₨0.2 million (US$1,400). However he has no vehicle registered in his name.

Bani Gala mansion
Khan owns a 300 kanal mansion in Bani Gala, Islamabad worth ₨750 million (US$5.3 million). Khan bought acres of land in Bani Gala on top of a hill and built a mansion on it. The mansion is located within a gated enclosure and is accessible through a private driveway.It is the permanent residence of Imran Khan.

Tax
In July 2017, Federal Board of Revenue Pakistan revealed the tax directory of Pakistani MP's. According to FBR, Khan paid ₨76,200 (US$540) of tax in 2015 and ₨1.59 lakh (US$1,100) in 2016.

Declan Walsh in The Guardian newspaper in England in 2005 described Khan as a "miserable politician," observing that, "Khan's ideas and affiliations since entering politics in 1996 have swerved and skidded like a rickshaw in a rainshower... He preaches democracy one day but gives a vote to reactionary mullahs the next."Khan has also been accused by some opponents and critics of hypocrisy and opportunism, including what has been called his life's "playboy to puritan U-turn." Political commentator Najam Sethi, stated that, "A lot of the Imran Khan story is about backtracking on a lot of things he said earlier, which is why this doesn't inspire people."Author Fatima Bhutto has criticised Khan for "incredible coziness not with the military but with dictatorship" as well as some of his political decisions


Huh, iow another rich playboy playing both ends against the "middle class" whilst he drinks long and deep at the monied trough of corruption.

Nice mullet choice Shreddi, were you a Musharraf acolyte too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMsvGggwqzo

FuckTheSaffers

  • 'Es klang so alt, und war doch so neu.'
Re: Music
« Reply #317 on: March 22, 2020, 10:31:20 pm »
Hahah the Americans are here get out the fleabitten old uniform and Banzai!  No, the Rite is not controversial; if anything we are more inclined to treat iconic works as hallowed museum pieces, as you yourself noted.  If you would put down your funny sword thing for a minute you would see that I am actually saying something interesting and, as far as I know, novel.

We are so used to treating the Baroque as a more or less unified stylistic genre, lumping Bach with Vivaldi but, to people living in that period, it was a clash between two opposing styles, the Italian and everybody else who were more or less trying to be French with their standard dance forms (though in what is now Germany they retained quite a lot of earlier polyphony, especially Bach and a few other wonderful nuts like Zelenka.  The Italians and their Mannheim heirs proposed abstract forms driven by rhythmic energy in a way that prefigures how modernism hit everyone two hundred years later.  I am not talking about influences on Stravinsky; there is no way Rite-era Stravinsky could have appreciated what was going on in dusty archives that only came out in the 20s and 30s where, if you listen to, say, Casella setting Vivaldi, you can see they didn't fully appreciate it then, either.  Only now can we get a sense of the conflict.  But Stravinsky was doing the same sort of thing with the Rite.

In France of course this was known as the querelle des bouffons which gives you some idea of what they would have thought of a rabid partisan like you hanging on to some pure ideal.  They were more concerned with synthesizing the styles, as in Couperin's Les goûts-réunis, or turning out glorious chimeras like this where, in the middle of a magnificent French chaconne you get a great thundering Mannheim crescendo at 7:28:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzRJq61pnaE

There is another one like that by Gretry.  But the main point isn't that I don't like the Rite; my opinion of it is neither here nor there.  I think it is a poor place to start someone out because it is a sustained comment on everything that preceded it and not a viable new beginning, whatever your wishes may be.  The main point is that people like you are buffoons.
,

This is idiocy on stilts, even for you. I can't think of a single work of art in any medium that isn't indebted in one way or another to what came before. They don't spring fully formed from the head. It may enhance a work to know, f'rinstance, that many of the characters in War and Peace were basically copies from real life models, but that doesn't mean you have to know that to enjoy the book. A work of art stands on its own or it's a failure, it's only timid little emotional marmosets like you who scamper behind the sofa at the thought of anything knew.

You make me very cross sometimes with all your limp-wristed hand-waving. You've already demonstrated your dearth of musical credentials by attempting to pass off your quavery tenor as being like Paul Robeson. You have the musical judgement of a doorknob covered in peanut butter.

FuckTheSaffers

  • 'Es klang so alt, und war doch so neu.'
Re: Music
« Reply #318 on: March 22, 2020, 10:36:55 pm »
Let's take a look under the lid and see who's in there...the cricketer prime minister ain't all he pretends to be:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imran_Khan

Imran Ahmed Khan Niazi HI PP (Urdu: عمران احمد خان نیازی‎; born 5 October 1952)[9] is the 22nd and current Prime Minister of Pakistan and the chairman of the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI). Before entering politics, Khan was an international cricketer and captain of the Pakistan national cricket team, which he led to victory in the 1992 Cricket World Cup.

Basing his wider paradigm on the poet-philosopher Muhammad Iqbal and the Iranian writer-sociologist Ali Shariati he came across in his youth, Khan is generally described as a nationalist and a populist. Khan's proclaimed political platform and declarations include: Islamic values, to which he rededicated himself in the 1990s; liberal economics, with the promise of deregulating the economy and creating a welfare state; decreased bureaucracy and the implementation of anti-corruption laws, to create and ensure a clean government; the establishment of an independent judiciary; overhaul of the country's police system; and an anti-militant vision for a democratic Pakistan.

Khan supported General Pervez Musharraf's military coup in 1999, believing Musharraf would "end corruption, clear out the political mafias". According to Khan, he was Musharraf's choice for prime minister in 2002 but turned down the offer.

Net worth
In 2012, Khan had net worth of ₨22.9 million (US$160,000) which decreased to ₨14 million (US$99,000) in the election year 2013 and then gradually increased to ₨33.3 million (US$240,000) in 2014. In 2015 Khan's assets were valued ₨1.33 billion (US$9.4 million). As of 2017, his net worth is ₨1.4 billion (US$9.9 million).[211]

Assets
Khan owns a 300 kanal mansion in Bani Gala, Islamabad worth ₨750 million (US$5.3 million). He has a house in Zaman Park, Lahore worth ₨29 million (US$210,000). Khan has also been an investor, investing more than ₨40 million (US$280,000) in various businesses. He is also owner of agriculture land of 39 kanals at Talhar, Islamabad, and 530 kanals at Khanewal. Further, he also has a share in 363 kanals of agricultural land which he inherited.

Other assets include furniture of ₨0.6 million (US$4,200) and livestock of ₨0.2 million (US$1,400). However he has no vehicle registered in his name.

Bani Gala mansion
Khan owns a 300 kanal mansion in Bani Gala, Islamabad worth ₨750 million (US$5.3 million). Khan bought acres of land in Bani Gala on top of a hill and built a mansion on it. The mansion is located within a gated enclosure and is accessible through a private driveway.It is the permanent residence of Imran Khan.

Tax
In July 2017, Federal Board of Revenue Pakistan revealed the tax directory of Pakistani MP's. According to FBR, Khan paid ₨76,200 (US$540) of tax in 2015 and ₨1.59 lakh (US$1,100) in 2016.

Declan Walsh in The Guardian newspaper in England in 2005 described Khan as a "miserable politician," observing that, "Khan's ideas and affiliations since entering politics in 1996 have swerved and skidded like a rickshaw in a rainshower... He preaches democracy one day but gives a vote to reactionary mullahs the next."Khan has also been accused by some opponents and critics of hypocrisy and opportunism, including what has been called his life's "playboy to puritan U-turn." Political commentator Najam Sethi, stated that, "A lot of the Imran Khan story is about backtracking on a lot of things he said earlier, which is why this doesn't inspire people."Author Fatima Bhutto has criticised Khan for "incredible coziness not with the military but with dictatorship" as well as some of his political decisions


Huh, iow another rich playboy playing both ends against the "middle class" whilst he drinks long and deep at the monied trough of corruption.

Nice mullet choice Shreddi, were you a Musharraf acolyte too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMsvGggwqzo

Don't doxx me, you little bitch. And it's not a mullet, that hairstyle has served me faithfully in the discoteques of Peshawar.

Re: Music
« Reply #319 on: March 22, 2020, 10:53:26 pm »
,

This is idiocy on stilts, even for you. I can't think of a single work of art in any medium that isn't indebted in one way or another to what came before. They don't spring fully formed from the head. It may enhance a work to know, f'rinstance, that many of the characters in War and Peace were basically copies from real life models, but that doesn't mean you have to know that to enjoy the book. A work of art stands on its own or it's a failure, it's only timid little emotional marmosets like you who scamper behind the sofa at the thought of anything knew.

You make me very cross sometimes with all your limp-wristed hand-waving. You've already demonstrated your dearth of musical credentials by attempting to pass off your quavery tenor as being like Paul Robeson. You have the musical judgement of a doorknob covered in peanut butter.

Ha I have spun you around again!  Throughout, you have been the one yelping about sui generis and Wagner's unique genius to which no one else can compare, while I have been arguing for context, without which nothing -- least of all the Rite treated as absolute music apart from the equally bold innovations in costume and choreography -- can be appreciated.  And yet you would foist this lopped-off hunk of artwork upon some unsuspecting neophyte and probably saddle him with a reading list as long as your arm.  It's dessicated old fossils like you who have done their dead-level best to strangle Zeus's fairest daughter, bind up her voluptuous limbs with gut-string and choke her luscious lips with treatises so you don't have to hear her voice.  Fie upon you!

FuckTheSaffers

  • 'Es klang so alt, und war doch so neu.'
Re: Music
« Reply #320 on: March 22, 2020, 11:01:05 pm »
Ha I have spun you around again!  Throughout, you have been the one yelping about sui generis and Wagner's unique genius to which no one else can compare, while I have been arguing for context, without which nothing -- least of all the Rite treated as absolute music apart from the equally bold innovations in costume and choreography -- can be appreciated.  And yet you would foist this lopped-off hunk of artwork upon some unsuspecting neophyte and probably saddle him with a reading list as long as your arm.  It's dessicated old fossils like you who have done their dead-level best to strangle Zeus's fairest daughter, bind up her voluptuous limbs with gut-string and choke her luscious lips with treatises so you don't have to hear her voice.  Fie upon you!

Wagner was unique but he had a list of influences as long as your arm: Beethoven, Greek drama, shitty Norsk myths, Schopenhauer etc. He produced something remarkable but also unrepeatable, as all his many imitators demonstrated. The Rite stands alone on its own merits, only an eejit like you would claim that, because the listener was unfamiliar with the Khorovod, she wasn't entitled to listen to it as absolute music. Wanker!

Re: Music
« Reply #321 on: March 22, 2020, 11:10:57 pm »
Wagner was unique but he had a list of influences as long as your arm: Beethoven, Greek drama, shitty Norsk myths, Schopenhauer etc. He produced something remarkable but also unrepeatable, as all his many imitators demonstrated. The Rite stands alone on its own merits, only an eejit like you would claim that, because the listener was unfamiliar with the Khorovod, she wasn't entitled to listen to it as absolute music. Wanker!

Of course she is entitled but once she ventures into criticism on that feeble basis I will call foul.  That is all you do.  You don't even deserve the title of dilettante (I am a true dilettante) yet you will confront an entire orchestra with a few hundred years of cumulative experience and presume to render judgment on their playing and choice of repertoire with nothing more than your personal taste (an unhealthy amount of which is inherited) to stand on.  You are entitled to offer a "hey look at this cool thing I found" but nothing more!  We sit at the feet of these masters and listen.

FuckTheSaffers

  • 'Es klang so alt, und war doch so neu.'
Re: Music
« Reply #322 on: March 22, 2020, 11:28:21 pm »
Of course she is entitled but once she ventures into criticism on that feeble basis I will call foul.  That is all you do.  You don't even deserve the title of dilettante (I am a true dilettante) yet you will confront an entire orchestra with a few hundred years of cumulative experience and presume to render judgment on their playing and choice of repertoire with nothing more than your personal taste (an unhealthy amount of which is inherited) to stand on.  You are entitled to offer a "hey look at this cool thing I found" but nothing more!  We sit at the feet of these masters and listen.

Yet you seem quite happy to offer up your criticisms of Birtwistle and Schoenberg on that basis; based on your taste, such as it is. I don't question your right not to like something, it doesn't matter to me either way. You treat music like revealed religion, as though there is nothing more to learn beyond your little safe space. Well, that's your right, if that's what you prefer, but I'd feel bored if I didn't feel there was more to learn and challenge me.

When you're carted off in the wagon and they toss you in that plague pit still alive, just before they throw a shovel load of quick lime on you, perhaps you'll regret being such a reactionary mental midget.

Re: Music
« Reply #323 on: March 22, 2020, 11:51:07 pm »
Yet you seem quite happy to offer up your criticisms of Birtwistle and Schoenberg on that basis; based on your taste, such as it is. I don't question your right not to like something, it doesn't matter to me either way. You treat music like revealed religion, as though there is nothing more to learn beyond your little safe space. Well, that's your right, if that's what you prefer, but I'd feel bored if I didn't feel there was more to learn and challenge me.

When you're carted off in the wagon and they toss you in that plague pit still alive, just before they throw a shovel load of quick lime on you, perhaps you'll regret being such a reactionary mental midget.

No I sat and listened and tried to figure out what they were trying to say, decided they were either talking in a different tongue or just trying to annoy me, and went back to the music that speaks my language.  The way people always have -- I don't think I'm special, like you.

Back to the Rite, though, and its context:  You also have to see it as a deliberate (and largely fanciful) effort to conjure a vision of Russia's violent, unpacified, pre-Christian past in the same way Rimsky-Korsakov characterized his Russian Easter overture (though I have my doubts as to his sincerity as there wasn't a Russian alive who wouldn't have chanted along at the end Today is Christ risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and unto those in the tombs restoring life).  Wagner did the same thing, of course, with the Ring, and the irrational effects on the national psyche still taint his legacy in the minds of my grandparents' generation.  I can't listen without a twinge of guilt, no matter how much I remind myself it's absolute music.

Metron

  • ||*~the propinquity of moving electrons~*||
Re: Music
« Reply #324 on: March 23, 2020, 08:14:28 pm »
Don't doxx me, you little bitch. And it's not a mullet, that hairstyle has served me faithfully in the discoteques of Peshawar.

Refreshingly brief non sequitur after I swiftly filleted out your rotting old mullet.



Discoteques...in Pakiland???

Well I suppose being India's truck stop means you have to provide some amenities.





How are the breath mints holding out?


Re: Music
« Reply #325 on: March 25, 2020, 11:10:07 pm »
I see Shreddie has quit the field again which is hardly surprising given the the trouncing I delivered but it is of no consequence; I shall address him in his absence as I have plenty more to say on the subject at hand.

You see, Shreddie, I have dealt with people like you my whole life:  pudgy greybeards who hung around the CD store (back when those were a thing) looking for a chance to squire some supple young thing, hoping to broaden his horizons, and maybe something else, at the same time.  I was once lured to a houseboat on Lake Union with the promise of an evening of Dittersdorf, roast game hen, and a rather good Montepulciano by a charming ebony gentleman who then displayed a marked tendency to direct the conversation south of the Equator.  I barely escaped with my dignity.

Thankfully for you, I have none left.  I have told you I will sit patiently and listen and twirl my mustaches as you explain modern music to me, but you must put out and we will both know it is but a ruse d'amour.  It's nearly April and her showers sweet will soon pierce the fucking drought of goddamn March to the root!  You can Daddy me all you like, escorting me around the horrible old Barbican while I turn heads like the Countess Bezhukova at the opera with a decolletage nearly as plunging while all your friends' hangdog faces turn green, but I shall make liberal use of your credit cards for the privilege.

Here is what, to my ears, is the preeminent Mannheim symphony.  If you doubt what I'm saying about rhythmic drive at the expense of melody, just try whistling along to the first movement.  It is all energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3VXscHsz-U

Re: Music
« Reply #326 on: March 26, 2020, 10:08:42 pm »
^Stamitz's Op. 3 is dated 1750-1754.  Bach had just died and Handel was still composing, just to give some idea of what a revolution the sound was.

Here is another cute little Mannheim symphony which sounds like the same decade to me -- Cannabich had a long career and, by Mozart's time, was writing more expansively.  The catchy finale almost presages the famous Ça ira of the French Revolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd9cFo2kdb8